My thoughts about Cars of the People season two.

"Berang" (berang) 01/27/2016 at 08:27 • Filed to: Cars of the People, James May

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James May is back with another season of Cars of the People, and the first episode is mostly good. He tries to show how the Japanese and Germans pulled the rug out from under the Americans and British, but a lot of the material is stale.

May pulls out some iconic cars and praises or poops on them, and while the info he gives is generally interesting and correct - the path is mostly well beaten. He’s not going anywhere new, nor is he seeming to even try and put an individualistic twist on history. The one nearly daring thing he does is criticize the Morris Minor, and this he does fairly lightly. After that he picks easy, obvious targets that have been beaten to death before. And that’s where most of my criticism comes in.

One thing is, he tries to cover so much ground in one episode, there really isn’t any space to get into the more thought provoking aspects of the history he’s touching on. He brings out a Mustang II to prove a point about the U.S. auto industry losing its way. And while the Mustang II is a nice symbol for much of what was wrong with the industry in the 1970s - it sidesteps a much more interesting and revealing question; Why did Chevrolet and Ford do so well in the 1960s when they brought out the Chevy II and the Falcon - but fail so miserably when they tried to repeat that success with the Vega and the Pinto? There are a multitude of reasons, which say a lot about Ford and Chevrolet, as well as the way the market and the competition had changed - unfortunately none of which are as entertaining as saying (basically) “Ford decided to make the Mustang ugly and stupid, and surprise it didn’t sell! - what a piece of crap!”.

Similarly, May trots out a nice Morris Minor, then tells us that while it was great, certain aspects of it were half-assed. Like how Morris stuck an outdated engine in an otherwise all-new car, because that’s what they were already making. It would have been neat to hear James’ thoughts about why a huge company like Morris thought they couldn’t afford to design the flat four engine Issigonis had wanted for the Minor, but a tiny company like Jowett was able to make one for their Javelin. But he doesn’t go there. Or why Triumph had attempted to produce a competitive front wheel drive car, and then gave up - while everybody else around the globe managed to bring one out. Instead he just points out that Triumph lacked German quality control.

It might also have been nice to hear why the British motor industry gave so little effort into selling cars in the U.S., the largest market in the world. Did they really think they could depend on exports to the colonies forever? Or did they just think the (non-sporting, mass-) market was too hard to crack? Compared to Japanese and German (and even French) attempts, British attempts were pretty feeble in this crucial market. The Minor for instance, could have been much more appealing to Americans than the VW beetle - had it been marketed and supported with anything approaching the same thoroughness as provided by VW.

Those would have been interesting travels down paths less well beaten, and revealed answers more insightful than just “unions were bad and management was bad, and companies were complacent”. Or at least provided fresher perspective on those problems. The first series is interesting because May occasionally gives an answer that hasn’t been heard a million times before - hopefully the second series will give us a little more of that in the next episodes.

A much smaller issue is May also glosses over a whole period of postwar BMW history, stating that after the war BMW decided to focus on upscale models, which would yield high profit margins. True. But, he forgets to mention that this move proved premature and nearly killed the company, and that BMW had to resort to a string of super-cheap entry level segment cars during the 1950s to keep themselves afloat. A reality which doesn’t quite fit the narrative of the rest of the show.

It is interesting to see May in action, on his own, doing a subject he is interested in. But if you’re a real car enthusiast, you might be disappointed to see May looking for the most superficial answers to questions that have already been asked thousands of times. Although the episode manages to be entertaining from beginning to end, it also feels like May is just going through the motions.

Cé hé sin > Berang 01/27/2016 at 08:32

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I wonder was he contracted to do it before The Clarkson Affair and then just carried on on autopilot to fulfill his obligations. I noticed the BMW “missing link” too.

The Ghost of Oppo > Berang 01/27/2016 at 08:35

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Is the first season on Netflix or Ondemand? When it first aired I didn’t have cable and never got to see it.

Berang > Cé hé sin 01/27/2016 at 08:41

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It’s probable. One thing that is lacking so far though, is top gear-esque shenanigans which were the worst parts of the first series. They seemed especially out of place with James because not even Jeremey engaged in them when he was doing car documentaries.

Berang > The Ghost of Oppo 01/27/2016 at 08:42

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I did a google video search and found them hosted on “alternative” sites. ;-)

Steve in Manhattan > Berang 01/27/2016 at 08:48

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So can you watch this in US America?

Saw the first part of the series, and I think this is new, at least to me. May has become my favorite of the Top Gear presenters: he has this show, the toy show, the wine/beer programs with Oz Clarke, and on and on. Hammond continues to blow things up, and Clarkson did a Meet the Neighbours show in 2000 and a slightly interesting Who Do You Think You Are? after that.

May is the best.

Berang > Steve in Manhattan 01/27/2016 at 08:52

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I did, although let’s not talk about that.

I too think James is the most enjoyable on his own. I really wanted him to “move up” to serious documentaries after he left Top Gear, because the first series of Cars of the People hinted that he’d be good at that. His other documentaries are good too, but let’s be honest they’re all mostly fluff. I think May would be good as a sort of modern day James Burke.

d15b > Berang 01/27/2016 at 09:08

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Valid points, but May does have the most “David Attenborough” presentation style.

My observation is not as in-depth as yours given that you speak of the content of the show. I just like how he presents things. I will definitely have to take a look at the show a little closer.

Berang > d15b 01/27/2016 at 09:18

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I agree, and think the May will probably be even better if gets more serious.

d15b > Berang 01/27/2016 at 09:31

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But for the lay-person I am sure it is the right amount of breadth and depth to give them a general idea of what is happening during those time periods.

Berang > d15b 01/27/2016 at 09:43

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It is. But Jeremy Clarkson already did most of the same material better in Who Killed the British Motor Industry, and the trio have also visited the subjects many times on Top Gear. The bit where May speaks with the Stylist of the Allegro was basically a watered down version of what was basically the same segment from this documentary:

So while it is all factual, it’s just been done better before.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > Berang 01/27/2016 at 09:44

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Also, I like how Nissan “copied” the Austin Seven. Since they didn’t, you know, buy tooling and produce it under license or anything.

They totes copied it.

d15b > Berang 01/27/2016 at 09:50

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*Boom*

Knowledge.

You have a list of well-made, British auto documentaries?

Berang > PanchoVilleneuve ST 01/27/2016 at 09:54

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The prewar Datsuns were unlicensed copies. There was no official business between Datsun and Austin until after the war. Austin did import a prewar Datsun to study, but for whatever reasons did not pursue any legal action. I wonder if the postwar relationship had anything to do with this. Maybe a sort of “We won’t sue you for this if you promise to purchase these designs from us” type deal.

Funny thing, Datsun blatantly ripped off the Crosley in the early postwar years, but again, Crosley declined to pursue legal action. There are some theories that the U.S. Government urged them to overlook the matter on account of the vehicles not competing in the same market and the Japanese economy being in such a fragile state. But I don’t think anybody knows conclusively what happened.

Berang > d15b 01/27/2016 at 10:07

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Not really. Because I’ve forgotten most of them. But some of this stuff jogged my memory.

Hoccy > Berang 01/27/2016 at 11:26

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I also found it annoying that there were no mention of the Isetta.

The perhaps most interesting point he makes is that about using the best scientists and engineers in military investments rather than in the public industry. The British and US car industry may (or could) have had a lot of the same policies as the German and Japanese, but the people working there simply weren’t as good as their foreign competitiors.

It’s the same reason why small countries rarely have any car industry. It requires either a large home market, or lots of bright heads available.

Steve in Manhattan > Berang 01/27/2016 at 11:51

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Agreed. And Clarkson has done some serious stuff as well, notably a documentary on Brunel and a couple other engineering shows.

I’ll have to check and see if this show is running here in the US. I want to see it.

Berang > Hoccy 01/27/2016 at 11:53

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I think the counterpoint to that would be that a lot of the most innovative work was being done by small companies with limited resources, even in the U.S.

Sure in countries where engineers were forced to leave companies that were dissolved after the war they ended up in new industries - but on the other hand, Nash was stretched thin on resources and they still made a unibody compact car a decade before any of the big three tried. The flipside of that of course was that Nash couldn’t afford to be complacent like the big three.

Berang > Steve in Manhattan 01/27/2016 at 12:02

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His Inventions That Changed the World was particularly good.

CALUSA > The Ghost of Oppo 01/27/2016 at 12:04

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BBC iPlayer.

CALUSA > Berang 01/27/2016 at 12:06

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The programme should have been 2 hours. The part in the Celica/ Mustang could’ve been so much longer.

Also, I liked the Top Gear/ Clarkson affair reference he made.

Hoccy > Berang 01/27/2016 at 12:21

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Fair point, there were lots of small, independent companies that survived simply by being innovative or different. If the new model worked like it should, they could start developing a new one. If not, they most likely went bankrupt, at least if someone didn’t see any value in the company.

Where would NSU be today if the Ro80 was reliable? What would Volvo be if the 140-series turned out to be directly unsafe and breaking into pieces? What would happen to Citroën if it wasn’t merged with Peugeot? Who knows.

It’s no guarantee that an innovation is just that when it hits the marked. It seems that most of the Germans and the Japanese was good at making solid stuff, while adding the new innovations right after they were proven and made better.

Berang > Hoccy 01/27/2016 at 12:29

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It’s also interesting that in Japan too, the biggest companies were the most conservative/complacent. Toyota and Datsun were essentially just building what amounted to slightly facelifted Morris Minors throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s (and even that’s probably too big of a compliment for some of their models). Meanwhile, Honda, Subaru, and Suzuki were pushing ahead with front wheel drive and innovative engines.

In Germany though even the big companies were trying lots of innovative ideas, which is sort of an interesting contrast. I think it may have a lot to do with the different way Germans and Japanese see companies/society.

Steve in Manhattan > Berang 01/27/2016 at 13:14

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Found it on YouTube:

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Berang 01/28/2016 at 19:20

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I didn’t read anything you wrote because I didn’t even realize they started a second series. I’ll be back soon.

Jonee > Berang 01/28/2016 at 21:42

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I haven’t seen it, yet, but if it’s anything like the first series, it’s more an entertainment than a real serious examination of the subject. Which is disappointing for both May and the BBC. You bring up a lot of great points. I’d watch/read Berang’s Cars of the People.

Berang > Jonee 01/28/2016 at 22:09

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I’m seriously considering starting a web series about old cars.

Jonee > Berang 01/28/2016 at 22:44

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Do it. It could be the thinking man’s Roadkill, or something. If you were out here in L.A., I’d offer to co-produce since I know folks with equipment.

Berang > Jonee 01/28/2016 at 23:02

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I may well be out in LA later this year. If so I’ll get in touch. I have a friend here who has some video equipment and we’ll probably make a pilot then seek out owners of old cars around Austin. But I want to do a road trip and if I can find some interesting cars along the way that’d be great.

I think what I’d be looking to do is two things: provide a historical context for a vehicle, and discuss what it is like to live with today.

Jonee > Berang 01/28/2016 at 23:39

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That’s right, I forgot you were in Austin. That’s a good place for something like this. Plenty of creative people there. Do get in touch regardless. I’ll let you relive driving a Le Car, and I might be able to help you find some interesting cars out here.

That sounds like exactly the kind of concept I’d want to watch. Information and history based. Learning is just as entertaining as goofing around. It’d be nice also to talk to people who originally owned whatever the car is back in the day. Obviously you could only go so far back for that angle, but I love talking to people who remember the cars in their original context. I started making a microcar documentary years ago and the most fascinating stuff was interviewing people who owned those cars when they were new. At some point I’m going to put something together for a post. It’s all standard def footage, so it’s too outdated looking to do anything serious with.

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 00:26

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You know, if you can you should get into contact with Pasha Truckaway, they owned the docks where the Subaru 360s were unloaded and stored. I emailed them years ago and got some interesting info. If anybody who was there in the 60's is still around, they’d be somebody to interview before they’re gone.

Jonee > Berang 01/29/2016 at 00:53

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That’s very interesting. I should look them up. They might know the true story behind the dumped in the Pacific ocean legend.

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 01:18

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They might know. They told me that they stored nearly 10,000 subarus there. Bricklin supposedly had a deal to buy 10,000 cars, so that would account for most of them. Were the missing cars dumped before they arrived? Or were they unloaded somewhere else? I would think it’d be more likely they’d be dumped after everything went south, so probably after being unloaded. But maybe they might still know what happened too if there taken directly from the lots (but that seems like a lot of effort? Why not sell them to a scrapper?).

I got in touch with them way back, after Bob Sinclair mentioned to me that Volvo and Subaru stored cars on the same lots and he’d even met Bricklin once during that period.

Jonee > Berang 01/29/2016 at 01:26

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Yeah, I think the story is they were dumped after he couldn’t get rid of them. So, I would think after the Fasttrack experiment. I wonder how many cars were left at that point. Knowing Bricklin, I wouldn’t be surprised if he just abandoned them where they were stored. But, it does seem like a lot of trouble to haul them out to the ocean.

When did you speak with Bob Sinclair? He died not too long ago, didn’t he?

Funny enough, I just went to Craigslist and this was the first listing. That’s the same price, isn’t it?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/540329…

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 02:16

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He told me he had a buyer - I GUESS NOT. The guy is delusional obviously. He had it on ebay for $2500, and nobody bid.

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 02:21

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PS: I talked to Bob years and years ago. We were originally talking because I wanted to know more about his Wartburg shenanigans. But I mentioned I had a Subaru 360 and he told me about seeing them and Bricklin back when he worked with Volvo. He was a very friendly and knowledgeable person.

Jonee > Berang 01/29/2016 at 03:09

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I imagine he would have some great stories. He was responsible for a lot of imports. Did he bring over Wartburgs, too?

Jonee > Berang 01/29/2016 at 03:11

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Anyone who puts a giant Snickers bar in his ad has to be a nut. It’s not in the best shape, but it looks like everything is there, so I’m surprised no one bit at 2500. 3500 is dreaming. I should send it in for a NPoCP unless you’re still interested.

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 03:40

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He famously brought over one wartburg in the 1980s. The EPA confiscated and crushed it. It’s an amusing story. I think Brock Yates wrote about it in one of his columns, around 1990 or so.

Berang > Jonee 01/29/2016 at 03:44

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I’m not interested. The seller doesn’t seem like a person I would enjoy buying from even if the price is right. He was also listing and re-listing a pretty beat up, non-running, incomplete Vespa 400 for eight thousand something, and a really hideous “restored” Willys wagon, for about three times as much as a perfect one might sell for. Basically, this is a guy with no respect for facts or money, but an eye for suckers.

Grindintosecond > Berang 01/29/2016 at 12:06

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I enjoyed the 1st season quite a bit. What I liked the most was the detailed culture around the cars he showed us. What made the car what it was, by what the society it came from was going through. VW beetle and the government planning for quality life. That sort of thing was really interesting to learn. If he sticks to that, then this could be good too. We’ll see where this series goes.

Jonee > Berang 01/30/2016 at 01:10

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He’s got a really weird collection of stuff. Almost like he’s a carny, or something.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/535983…

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/540584…

Jonee > Berang 01/30/2016 at 01:12

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I looked that story up. Funny. He said he brought it over to compare to the Saab to show how much the Swedes had advanced vs. the Communists.

Spridget > Berang 02/08/2016 at 23:01

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This episode didn’t do much for me either, but I did like the bit where he drove and talked to the employees in Japan and America, as well as the Allegro bit. If he had cut the crap from those two bits and just talked, then I would have liked it better. Episode 2.2 is quite good though.